Ep. 35 - Understanding Apologetics for a Deepened Faith

Get ready to unlock the world of Christian apologetics with our esteemed guest, Tim, as we explore its significance in defending the faith. We promise you'll gain insights into the origins of apologetics, tracing back to the Greek term "apologia," and how this form of reasoned defense is more about articulation than apology. We reflect on 1 Peter 3:15, urging Christians to present their beliefs with gentleness and respect, aiming to clear up common misconceptions surrounding the need for defending the gospel.

Throughout our conversation, we engage with the challenges that come with religious pluralism and exclusivity, particularly in an age where younger generations are more spiritual yet less religious. We tackle these evolving questions, encouraging thoughtful dialogue over quick social media snippets, and emphasize the importance of long-form discussions in truly understanding faith- and Bible-related moral inquiries. Discover how apologetics is not about "owning" opponents, but about creating meaningful connections that nurture belief and understanding.

Apologetics is portrayed as a spiritual discipline that not only fortifies personal faith but also plays a vital role in discipleship. By addressing objections with love and comprehension, believers can embody the teachings of Christ while demystifying intellectual and emotional barriers. For those seeking to bolster their confidence in their faith journey, we recommend timeless resources such as Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" and C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity," which offer profound insights into engaging with and defending the Christian faith. Join us for this enlightening episode and transform your approach to apologetics as a pathway to deeper understanding and connection.

Chapters

• 0:02 The Importance of Christian Apologetics
• 12:25 Misconceptions and Common Questions in Apologetics
• 17:57 Navigating Religious Pluralism and Exclusivity
• 23:31 Exploring Apologetics and Faith Strengthening
• 34:36 The Role of Apologetics in Discipleship

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

All right, everyone, welcome back to the Psych and Theo podcast. We are talking today about the importance of apologetics for Christians, and Tim, our expert, is going to be leading us in a lively discussion on why this is important and why Christians should care about this, because I think sometimes we just get so caught up with not wanting to know more or not knowing how to defend our faith, and we're going to learn how to do it today. Tim, take us away. Why is apologetics, or why are we doing this episode today?

Speaker 3: 0:39

Well, so this episode is actually your idea. So I'm curious to ask you what was the impetus behind this idea?

Speaker 1: 0:48

So let me ask you let me throw it back to you first, yeah, yeah, no, I'm glad you asked because I was going to say, you know, we've been talking a little bit about our logo and changing things up a bit just regarding that. So obviously our topics are still around areas that we are able to speak on, areas that we are able to speak on, and I was just looking at psych and theo. I'm like you know what? We haven't really given a good introduction I mean, we did it probably in the first couple of episodes but a good introduction as to why we call it psych and theo. Obviously, we're experts in our field and we talk about certain issues within our field, but I thought it would be good to just talk about, okay, why is psychology important for Christians to understand which will be a later episode and then why is theology, or apologetics also important?

Speaker 3: 1:30

for.

Speaker 1: 1:30

Christians to understand, which ties into our second theology.

Speaker 3: 1:34

We'll have to do another episode later just on theology itself, because apologetics is the practice or discipline of defending the faith. So the word apologetics we get it from the Greek word apologia. It's also that Greek word is where we get the word apology, which in our English vernacular means to say you're sorry, to express remorse or something like that. But in reality, what an an apology is like if I were to give an apology for something, even though I'm saying sorry, I'm giving a justification for something, I'm right, I'm giving an explanation or something. So, uh, the word apologia in greek means a defense, and so apologetics in the discipline in Christianity means to defend the faith.

Speaker 3: 2:29

Yeah, and we get that from. There's a famous verse. If you've spent any time in the apologetics world, you'll know this verse. But 1 Peter 3.15 is where they get this concept of defending the faith, because a lot of people think like, well, you know, we just need to preach the gospel and, uh, win people to christ and that's that's it. We don't need to defend the faith. You know the cs lewis and I forget where I think I think it's in mere christianity, but I'm not sure exactly where he said he gives this analogy of that. Christ is a lion and you don't need to defend a lion, you just need to let the lion out of the cage. It'll defend itself. And that sounds good.

Speaker 3: 3:13

And CS Lewis is one of the foremost apologists. So it's kind of ironic coming from him, or it's ironic that people would use that quote from him, even though he's one of the foremost apologists of the 20th century. But, yeah, so people will think like, well, I don't need to defend the faith because the gospel will defend itself, and I guess in a sense that's true, but in another sense it's not true. So we are called to give an answer, to defend the faith in the Gospel of Jude. I won't read this, but Jude tells believers to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. And he says that within the context of contending for the faith amongst false teachers, of the faith amongst false teachers. So there's an aspect to apologetics that's defending the pure gospel, the true gospel, from counterfeits. But then there's also we see examples of this all through scripture of the disciples or the apostles or the prophets contending with unbelievers in some way, either in the Old Testament, that's true prophets of God contending with false prophets, or in the New Testament, that's the disciples or the Apostle Paul going into the synagogue and reasoning with the Jews on a daily basis in various cities. So we see examples of that all through Scripture.

Speaker 3: 4:43

But let me read you this passage of scripture that this comes from. I'm going to read 1 Peter 3, verses 13 through 18, so that you can get the whole context here suffering and enduring suffering while you're trying to do good, okay, so he says this now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good? So he's telling believers, similar to what Paul says in Romans, chapter 12, don't repay evil with evil. Be good citizens who obey the government, who are well well behaved in society and conduct yourselves well, so that way, when someone brings a charge against you, they are put to shame. So that's what he says here.

Speaker 3: 5:33

Says now, who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good? But even if you should suffer for righteousness sake, you will be blessed. And then he says have no fear of them. That is, the people who trouble you. Nor be troubled, but in your hearts, honor christ the lord as holy always. And here's, here's the famous verse, verse 15 always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks for a reason, for the hope that is in you. Yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that when you are slandered, those who revile you, your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that be God's will, than for doing evil that be god's will than for doing evil.

Speaker 3: 6:29

Okay, so, um, peter is telling the believers amidst, amidst people slandering you and doing all kinds of evil things against you, for doing good. Conduct yourself, um, with righteousness, conduct yourself with, uh, good behavior, and be ready when you are questioned, questioned by the roman authorities in this context, be ready to give a defense of the hope that lies within you. So be ready to explain your faith, give reasons for your faith. So that way, um it, you know it. Basically, you present the faith as a reasonable thing. Yeah, to unbelievers. That's, that's what he's saying there.

Speaker 1: 7:11

So that's where the, the foundation of the practice of apologetics comes, comes from yeah, it sounded like as you were sharing that, that it's kind of like you got to walk the walk and talk the talk, type of thing. Would it be fair to say that?

Speaker 3: 7:23

yeah, but it's. It's more than just having a good testimony right, right.

Speaker 1: 7:27

So yeah, you have to defend it verbally, explaining to someone. But also that's supported by how the person is living, because, remember, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're connected yeah, that I remember. There's a saying that a lot of people started kind of using as well as that um, you know well, people will come to know christ through my behavior, which is basically what you, you're saying, right, they'll come to know Christ through my behavior, I don't need to say anything.

Speaker 1: 7:48

And then there's the other side, where they just say, well, you know Jesus loves you and they give the gospel within their lives are completely opposite to what Scripture teaches, yeah that first thing you mentioned comes from well, it's attributed to St Francis of Assisi's and it says preach the gospel at all times and, when necessary, use words.

Speaker 3: 8:06

Now there's debate over whether Francis of. Assisi ever actually said that. But even if he did, it's wrong.

Speaker 1: 8:14

You can't preach the gospel without using words.

Speaker 3: 8:19

And in this context, as I was saying, it's more than just having a good testimony. It is providing a, a reasoned defense of your faith in public. But, as you said, it's tied in with a good testimony. If you don't have a good testimony, it doesn't matter how good of a debater you are, like people ain't gonna ain't gonna want to listen to what you have to say.

Speaker 1: 8:44

Or they may believe that what they're actually doing is living the Christian life. And I only say it because it's fresh on my mind. This was maybe a week and a half ago. There was a UFC fighter, dominant champion, I mean he's the John Jones, John Jones, you know John.

Speaker 1: 9:00

So greatest of all time, and he gets up there and he kind of preaches the gospel. He kind of says you know, jesus loves you. He didn't give the repenting part. But he says that and then he goes off and parties right, and this is, I mean, he's very common in doing that. So speaks back to that point that people can articulate it well, but if their life is not supporting that, there may be people who believe oh, if that's what a Christian is, then I can be a Christian too. It's a belief in God, essentially.

Speaker 3: 9:28

Yeah, I didn't want to jump on John Jones. I saw him say that but I don't know like if he had changed his life or not. I know he used to be part of, maybe he still is, I don't know, but I saw that and.

Speaker 3: 9:39

I saw a bunch of Christians commenting on it Like oh, oh, how great it was for, like you know, this celebrity to give us a shout out. Basically, yeah, and it was just more of like christians wanting to, wanting so bad to be. You know, have a, have a celebrity, yeah, and I just think it's premature to always do that.

Speaker 3: 9:56

But I do um, but I will say this apologetics is more. It's more than just witnessing. It's more than just saying I'm a christian and you guys should be christians too. It's it's more than just witnessing. It's more than just saying I'm a Christian and you guys should be Christians too. It's more than that. Apologetics is, specifically in the modern context, is defending the faith, either defending it from outside attacks, criticisms and things like that or internal heresies from false teachers. That we would call that, uh, polemics, uh you know, it's a subset of apologetics.

Speaker 3: 10:28

Um, so it. Apologetics is is specifically geared toward defending the faith from attacks, whether internal or external internal or external.

Speaker 1: 10:39

Yeah, yeah, so and it's.

Speaker 3: 10:41

Yeah, an internal would be like. You know, something like Mormonism is a heresy that sprang out of Christianity, or Jehovah's Witnesses, or a classic heresy is like Arianism or Modalism or something like that. Yeah, Okay. Or other cults that would spring about. That would be like an internal attack.

Speaker 1: 11:04

Yeah, okay, or other cults that would spring about.

Speaker 1: 11:06

That would be like an internal attack. Yeah, so how do we as Christians kind of prepare ourselves in a way to be able to defend the faith, because we're not going to know everything about all of these different spaces but I mean there's a lot of these that are happening in churches and we've talked about this before is that a lot of Christians are being led away from their faith because they start believing these other things. Like you mentioned, modalism. Like maybe a lot of people who are listening don't even know what modalism is, so they don't know these terms or phrases. So, yeah, how do we prepare people, or how do you help people understand? Here's the basics of apologetics.

Speaker 3: 11:44

Well, so I think In this day and age, the good place to start would be YouTube or some sort of platform where there's lots of Christian apologists out there that can have lots of good resources that can help and we can get into some of those at the end of the episode.

Speaker 3: 12:03

You know, if you're not a, if you're not a, this isn't like your discipline or you're not trained in that, like a lot of people listening to this are full-time. They're full-time professionals in other spheres, so they're not going to have all the training that, like, a professional theologian would. However, there's lots of good books you can get that can kind of show you the ropes and the basics. I don't think anyone should go into the realm of apologetics because they like to argue.

Speaker 3: 12:33

When someone says, oh, I love to argue, I think that person is immature or just really unhealthy in some way. So you don't go into apologetics because you like to argue or you like to debate. Debating is a part of apologetics, but it's one of those things that there's healthy and unhealthy forms of debating. And a lot of people think well, if I'm arguing with someone, I'm like a debater or something Right?

Speaker 3: 13:00

No you're just arguing with someone. So don't go into apologetics because you like to win arguments and you want to own the heretics or something. Don't do that to own the heretics or something. Don't do that. But go into apologetics because maybe you're getting questioned at work by your atheist friend, or maybe you came across something online that has challenged your faith and you don't have an answer for it. Well, rest assured and I've said this in a previous episode don't panic. Rest assured that someone along the line in the long history of Christianity has probably thought about and dealt with that challenge you just encountered. So go and seek out an answer from someone who's maybe thought about it a little bit more.

Speaker 1: 13:48

Yeah, yeah, that was going to be one of the questions that I was going to ask about. What do you think Christians get wrong about apologetics? And I think one of them is that is thinking that it's just going into argue your point, you know, and it's much more than that.

Speaker 3: 14:01

And unfortunately, in this day and age, with TikTok and Instagram and all the reels that people make, I see this a lot, even in the apologetic space, where people are confusing a two minute or even a 30 second reel of, like a gotcha moment. It's like, that's like, that's a debate, and I would just caution our audience that you're not going to arrive at truth by um, doing like, quote, unquote, doing research that way, watching these two minute clips on YouTube or whatever, where someone gets a zinger in on someone else. All those videos are clipped and edited to make whoever produced it look a certain way. I've seen this with there.

Speaker 3: 14:51

There's some muslim apologists on youtube and they have taken clips from some christian, well-known christian apologists that are like debating in a public square and they make their own reels out of it. Like, watch, how you know this. Muslim questions, uh, the doctrine of, like, the doctrine of the trinity, you know, totally, totally backs him into a corner. It's like. And then I watch it. I'm like. I'm like, no, he, no, you didn't like. I know exactly, I know exactly what you're doing here in this video.

Speaker 3: 15:19

I know exactly what you edited out or what you did not allow to make it into this video because, if that apology, I'm just thinking of a particular one in particular, where this apologist named cliff nettle- yeah, cliff a lot of people know him.

Speaker 3: 15:32

This muslim apologist had put up this video of like basically, these two college, these two muslim college kids, like, quote-unquote, owning cliff on its on a subject, and I watched the video. I'm like, no, I I know exactly what. What cliff probably, or the angle he probably took when they challenged him with this and they the video has clearly edited out his responses you know, so it's all that to say.

Speaker 3: 15:59

Don't do research that way. I would say go watch long form debates like hour and a half, two hour, three hour videos. They're there on youtube, um you can find them, um of like scholars debating these issues, because there you'll get the meat and potatoes of what they're talking about and it's point for point back and forth in a controlled environment to where it's not like someone's not trying to throw zingers at the other person. They're trying to have a very rational reason to debate about different subjects yeah yeah and the shit.

Speaker 1: 16:33

And I think one of the themes that I've noticed when people are doing apologetics is that there's always like top three, top five questions that always come up. Yeah, and I was going to ask you about that, like what are some of the ones that you've heard when it comes to apologetics that people either ask the most about or they're most confused about? Like what's something common that you hear?

Speaker 3: 16:51

I think it changes over time. This generation seems to be really focused on moral problems from the Bible. Like is God, this angry, bloodthirsty, genocidal maniac in the Old Testament?

Speaker 3: 17:09

Like what do you do with that? Like the differences between Old and New testament, how god is presented, um, so that's, that's a challenge that, like, a prior generation didn't so much care about, but this one does. Um, you know, some classic things would be like the reasons for the existence of god does he exist or not? I would say that this generation, though, is they're less atheistic, they're less naturalistic, so those questions have kind of like it seems to me that those questions have aren't as prominent in the spotlight now of the arguments for the existence of god. It seems that a lot, of, a lot of younger people don't have a problem believing in a higher power or some sort of divine being or plural being yeah yeah, um.

Speaker 3: 17:57

However, uh, one apologetic question that's. That's pretty um universal now, and I no pun intended is is the problem of religious pluralism, or religious exclusivity maybe is another way to put it. And, and what I mean by that is Christianity would be defined as an exclusivistic religion and that its claims to the truth exclude other religions from having the truth. So Christianity says Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father but by him. So Jesus is the way back to God and God is a triune being as revealed in the Bible. And so Christianity makes that claim and says there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ. He is the way back to God, he is the way of salvation. Well, that by its very nature excludes other religious claims. So Christianity is an exclusivistic religion in that sense. It's not exclusive in that some people get to join and others don't. Don't shoot me, calvinists.

Speaker 3: 19:01

I'm just saying it's not a club where you need a special ticket to get in. God holds his hand out to everyone and offers the way of salvation to all people.

Speaker 3: 19:13

But salvation is exclusively through Jesus Christ. It's not through Muhammad, it's not through Buddha, it's not through Shiva or Vishnu or Ganesha, any of the Hindu gods. It's not through any of that. It's through Jesus Christ, the hindu gods. It's not through any of that. Through jesus christ, yeah, but in this day and age, with young people, they see all these other religions. Um, they all claim to have some knowledge and some religious experiences and they again. Another moral problem is why would, um, why would? Uh? What happens to people who've never heard the gospel Like, why would God send them to hell? In the Christian religion, that seems to be what happens. So that again, that's another moral problem that they bring up. It's not a belief about. Is there something supernatural? But why would God do it that way? It seems unjust. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:07

So there's a lot of moral questions that come up with this generation?

Speaker 1: 20:10

It definitely does, and it's interesting too, because I think the increase for this younger generation has been in spirituality, but it's kind of been a little bit of everything. So it's not necessarily that they become more spiritual but less religious, right? So the idea of spirituality is appealing to them, the idea of a higher power and all these different things, different religions but their religiosity, which is their behaviors going to church, attending communities, having home groups, all of that has declined. So it's very interesting to see the interest in spiritual things, but avoiding the very thing that makes it distinct from the other religions, and seeking community.

Speaker 1: 20:53

Everyone says I'm a Christian and there's a lot of meaning to that, and I think what they're saying is either I believe in God or I have been awakened to this new age spirituality. And that was a big thing, I mean. I've interviewed a couple of people who used to be in the new um spiritual world, uh, per se and um, they've come out of it. So again, just a lot of interesting journeys that people have had when seeking god yeah, I mean the, this generation.

Speaker 3: 21:25

The term is remixed religion that they're. They're remixing old forms of religion to make essentially new religions. They're not really that new, but they're youing old forms of religion to make essentially new religions. They're not really that new, but they're new forms of it. It's like you go to a restaurant and they use the same five ingredients for every dish. It's like that kind of restaurant. It sounds like a spirituality.

Speaker 3: 21:48

Yeah, yeah, like a spirituality, yeah, yeah. So, um, yeah, they're spiritual but they don't want to adhere to, uh, maybe a historic faith like historic christianity or historic some church they reject traditionalism, yeah yeah yeah but it's not. You know that even that's kind of changing, because some people are. They see all the craziness in our culture and they are actually choosing to come back to a historic, traditional faith in some sense.

Speaker 1: 22:20

Well, you've talked about the sex differences, even within that, yeah it is mostly men who are coming back.

Speaker 3: 22:27

A lot of women are shifting toward feminism, and then feminism being a gateway to new age spirituality, animism, witchcraft and other things like that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:40

So, as we're talking about this aspect of apologetics, we talked a little bit about kind of what Christians may get wrong. So where do we want to point people to as they kind of prepare for defending their faith, Because not everyone has the same. Maybe a lot of people feel like I'm not the right person to defend the faith because I can't articulate it well or they just don't feel capable of doing that. We know that we need to preach the gospel. That's a command that Jesus has given to all of us. We need to preach the gospel, but I think there's some people who are afraid of speaking up and defending the faith because they don't know enough or feel like that should be someone else's job. What would you say to them, I guess, who are in that space of? I know I'm preaching the gospel, but I don't know if I could take on these bigger issues.

Speaker 3: 23:29

Well, I would say you don't have to take on the big issues.

Speaker 3: 23:31

Apologetics can be a form of spiritual discipline for you that's good yeah, you know a lot of christians, I think and we all do this to some extent with, with, with other things in our lives where we encounter something that scares us and we're kind of afraid to. We're afraid of the what the answer is. It could be like um you, some people, they have something medically wrong with them, but they're afraid to go to the doctor and actually find out what it is Because they're afraid of the bad news. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 24:02

It could be like someone has encountered something online or at work that has challenged their faith and, rather than going and seeking out the answer, they're not, they're just stagnant and they're cause, they're afraid that maybe there isn't an answer out there, and I would challenge them that apologetics can be a form of strengthening your own faith, where you might be great at evangelism and terrible at like debating point for point and being like a Ben Shapiro, you know like you don't have to do that, but having the requisite knowledge, like operating in your mind where you've learned a little bit about history, you've learned a little bit about philosophy, you've learned a little bit about the key tenets and arguments for Christianity, and that's just there in your mind and as you're witnessing to people, maybe a question that they've had comes up and maybe you've dealt with that personally in your life.

Speaker 3: 25:03

So I would just say you don't have to study apologetics to go out and be some debater on college campuses. It actually can help you personally in your own spiritual walk if you're wrestling with doubts, and then it can help you just in conversation with people. I mean, I've had that many, many times where I don't like the formal debates. I don't like entering into some sort of formal debate with people, but just in conversing with people there's a lot. Let me just say this the average Christian doesn't really know a lot of these apologetic issues, how to work through them, how to talk through them. If the average Christian doesn't know that there are answers for their faith. How much less do unbelievers know?

Speaker 3: 25:51

that there are answers for the Christian faith, right, okay? So just take heart, christian, that once you start studying these things, it might become very fascinating for you and it might actually be a great encouragement, like you might actually become encouraged and emboldened spiritually, so that way you actually have more confidence when you evangelize people. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:11

Yeah, no, I love that, I love that. Uh, I thought, yeah, you said I saw a book that you brought in. I'm like yeah, I think I have that book yeah it's the encyclopedia of apologetics. Yeah, I have a few.

Speaker 3: 26:22

I have a bunch of resources here, but um, so I'll just.

Speaker 1: 26:25

I was going to walk through them.

Speaker 3: 26:27

The first one here is is one that's been around liberty circles for a long, long time. Um, it's called the popular encyclopedia of apologetics. Um and uh, it's, it's basically a. It's a very popular level as, again, as the title says, it's a popular level anthology of different apologetic topics. If you crack open the table of contents, it has uh, it has dozens and dozens and dozens of topics. I mean probably probably a hundred different topics that it gives short answers to that are maybe a page or two long it just gives you a nice succinct answer now.

Speaker 3: 27:08

It's not going to be robust, uh, but it's going to get you kind of going. It's going to whet your appetite, give you some quick answers. Another one is and I'm sure many people, have heard of this.

Speaker 3: 27:19

It's called the Case for Christ and it's by Lee Strobel. It's a good book on the resurrection and the format of this book is Lee Strobel goes around and interviews different experts on the topic and he basically I think it's kind of a biopic on how he came to Christ, but it's a really famous book. Another one is very similar to that. I think he's actually interviewed in the Case for Christ. This is by Gary Habermas and Michael Lacona. This is called the Case for the Resurrection of Jesus. Now, this is a heavy hitting book, just on that topic specifically. And again, it's a really accessible book. It's not like you don't have to know Greekreek and hebrew you know to to read it. It's a really a good book. Uh, another one, last one, or actually two, I get two here. Where'd it go? It dropped anyway, it's oh, here it is.

Speaker 3: 28:17

It's a mere christianity is for sitting right under my arm, mere christianity by cs lewis. A lot of people know of this book. A lot of people have read this book. Um, but it's a great classic work that just CS Lewis boils down what are the mere basic tenets of Christianity. What do we need to be concerned about?

Speaker 1: 28:39

Do all of these authors have similar backgrounds? I mean, you mentioned doubting one's faith and wrestling with those big questions, and I know we see that with CS Lewis and I know that's happened with Lee Strobel. Do you see any themes in their backgrounds that made them write these books? Well, Lee.

Speaker 3: 28:56

Strobel, was an atheist and then he became a Christian. Through that process, cs Lewis, I guess, was raised Anglican and then he was an atheist for a long time and then he eventually came to Christ. I don't know if he wrestled with doubts. I'm not a CS Lewis biographer so I couldn't tell you the arc of his story. Gary Habermas was a Christian for a long time. He's a Christian most of his life but, um, he wrestled with a lot of doubts, um and uh, emotional and intellectual doubts and um. So that's what kind of led him into this career of defending the, the resurrection, um, and michael lacona I don't know much about uh, personally I don't know how long he's been a Christian and whatnot. The popular encyclopedia it's edited by Ed Hindson and Ergen Kanner, but all the different chapters are by just tons of different people.

Speaker 3: 30:01

So, there's lots of different Christians there. There's one more book.

Speaker 1: 30:07

If you really want to dive in.

Speaker 3: 30:09

This is a sledgehammer book. This is called Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview. Now, the title should tell you something that this is about philosophical apologetics. So this is like the heavy kind of mental work. And this is written by JP More, william lane, craig. I love this. I love this book because it's a. It's a great resource. Um, it's got, it's a common anthology book. It's got lots of different topics. Almost think of it like it's like a systematic theology. But really or for apologetics.

Speaker 3: 30:41

It's like a that's cool, yeah, big, hip, thick book like that. Another one just off the top of my head would be scaling the secular city by jp moreland. Um, that's a really great book. There's like a basic apologetics book yeah yeah, yeah, always some good resources there.

Speaker 1: 30:59

Yeah, yeah, we should be getting some royalties on the.

Speaker 3: 31:02

Yeah, yeah yeah, some, some other like good websites would be William Lane Craig's Reasonable Faith website. That's a great one to go out to. I've mentioned this one before. Stand to Reason. That's Greg Kugel's website. Another one it's sort of a creation website. It's called Reasons to Believe. It's sort of a creation website. It's called Reasons to Believe and they're in Old Earth. They take the Old Earth position, but they have some great resources, both in Genesis and in other areas of apologetics. That's why I recommend them. What's one more Well gotquestionsorg.

Speaker 3: 31:50

That's a good one for just Bible questions, and they're going to have stuff for apologetics there as well.

Speaker 1: 31:58

Yeah, I like that. I think one part that we've touched on here a lot is kind of how maybe your story or anyone's story can kind of lead them into I should know a little bit more about my faith. Or maybe you've encountered a question more often with either your friends or family members. Family member is a big one always and there's questions. So look for themes.

Speaker 1: 32:22

I think what I would recommend look for themes in your life of people, of just questions that they have, because that's the population that you're working with. So, for me, with college students, of people of just questions that they have, because that's the population that you're working with. So, for me, with um college students, one of the questions that they had in the last couple of years was the whole deconstruction thing. Yeah, right, that became a huge issue and it was almost stigmatized. Like the fact that you have questions is not the problem is, what do you do with those questions afterwards? Right, and so some decide to leave their faith, others, it just made it stronger so I think this aspect of apologetics is key yeah, and and for anyone listening, I mean, uh, the defending one's faith.

Speaker 3: 32:54

It can come from different angles. Like you could be in conversation and someone's like, what about evolution? Well, there you go, right, there's a topic of apologetics. Or someone says, well, your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth. Well, that's another one, that's relativism, so you got to know how to deal with that one. Um, it could be like again, the, the god calls for genocide in the old testament. Like so people just throw out things all the time all these kind of objections.

Speaker 3: 33:19

These are all apologetic in nature. Yeah, of having to know how to answer that with people and don't feel like you, you have to have all the answers. Yeah, some of the most beautiful words in the english language that's the most freeing is say I don't know. Yeah, and just I've had to say that sometimes I'll be like, well, you know, that's interesting, I'll have to go, I'll go look that up.

Speaker 3: 33:40

I'm not familiar with that, but I'll go look that up yeah but I usually well, this is, I'm trained on these things, so usually'll say but here's what I would probably say, you know, and I would give him some sort of answer you know, but yeah, you gotta give him something.

Speaker 1: 33:53

Yeah, yeah, that's good, that's good man.

Speaker 3: 33:55

But it's okay. It's okay to not have the answer or it's okay to have multiple answers. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 34:09

So a lot of times people Christians think like I've got to have the answer for a specific question and you actually don't, because if the person who is sorry, I'm taking over here but the person who's objecting they're giving an objection to Christianity. Christianity is not true because of X, y and Z, like Christianity is not true because of evolution, or Christianity is not true because Jesus didn't rise from the dead, or something like that. Okay, you could have multiple answers for them. Like with the evolution question. All you have to do is show them that Christianity is. There's multiple ways of making Christianity compatible with, or let me rephrase that there's multiple explanations that you could offer that are compatible with Christianity. So one could be the young earth position, but one could be an old earth position as well. That's perfectly compatible with Christianity. Some of the young earthers are going to get all twisted on that one.

Speaker 3: 35:05

But again, the objector is the one who needs to. You know, prove that this topic, this, whatever this objection is, is the thing that defeats christianity. So all you got to do is offer explanations that defeat the defeater yeah, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 35:24

Yeah, no, that does. That does. And to your point earlier, I think it just stuck with me that watching these apologists live that out, meaning when they're debating other people, there's something special about that because you see it not just at the intellectual level but also a relational level. There's a relational piece to being an apologetic. Is that how you would say to defending the faith because you're relating to the people? How you would say to defending the faith because you're relating to the people, so you're demonstrating to them the love of Christ and also you're educating them on the process, and it does require both. So just to counter that idea that we mentioned earlier, that a lot of people say in culture is that only one partisan is either just live out your faith or just say something or talk about your faith and that's enough. They both need to go hand in hand. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 36:09

Yeah, I mean doing apologetics is a part of discipleship. So if you think of it that way, you know Jesus is go out and make disciples, teaching them to absorb all things that I've commanded you. The apologetics aspect of that is not just dunking on someone in an argument like it.

Speaker 3: 36:29

Think of it as education, think of it as like okay, this person has these objections, uh, to christianity. Maybe behind those objections there's emotional things. Um, that could be the case too. Um, so you got to use discernment. But just know, like you're offering, you're offering solution. You're offering an answer and a solution for them. You're offering a way for them to understand how God could be working in their life, how Christianity could be true. You don't have to get upset over it. No, definitely not.

Speaker 3: 37:00

You don't have to get afraid or insecure or defensive over it.

Speaker 1: 37:04

Love that. That's good Tim.